Mohammed the Prophet and other big guys…

03.02.2006Osebno

Another one of those subject which splits the world in half. Both equally blinded by some ideals they are shouting and throwing stuff at each other.

Some denmark newspaper published caricatures of the Mohammed and the muslims went beserk. Rightfully. Making a joke out of a religion is serious.

The published caricatures went around the globe and were soon published in France, Italy and other European countries, editors claiming they are “only” doing their job and that we, the europeans (sheesh) know something we call freedom of speech.

First of all, any asshole who is claiming this has anything to do with the freedom of speech should have their heads examined. I know all about Strelnikoff and their Madonna with the rat but quickly, can anyone name ONE important difference between those two? Anyone?

Strelnikoff is an artistic musical group. Newspapers are…not. Second, I would like to see the newspaper who tries a similar stunt with our beloved JC (the closest was to my knowledge Mladina, who published the same cover on one of their covers). First let`s think of some possible caricatures that reflect our great Catholic religion.

  • JC having sex with a kid
  • JC having sex with another man
  • JC stuffing an aborted fetus back into the womb

Now let us think of a possible reaction by our beloved catholics. Will they be cool and turn the other cheek? Would they chuck it down to “suffer on this side, enjoy on the next” or would they fucking riot and burn down the printing house?

Freedom of speech? You want to talk about freedom of speech? Let me quote the journalistic code of Slovenian journalists.

Paragraph 23 says:

Novinar se mora izogibati rasnim, spolnim, starostnim, verskim, etničnim in geografskim stereotipom in stereotipom, povezanim s spolnimi nagnjenji, invalidnostjo, fizičnim videzom in socialnim položajem. Diskriminacija zaradi spola, pripadnosti etnični, verski, socialni ali narodni skupnosti, žalitev verskih čustev in običajev ter netenje mednacionalnih trenj niso dopustni.

Since our code is based on the International code of Journalists I would expect every country to have something similar written in their code. And no freedom of speech wins over offending someone`s religion. Not here, not anywhere. No matter who`s your god.

 

35 komentarjev na “Mohammed the Prophet and other big guys…

  1. jin

    Tell me, how many christians were abducting atheists after the Strelnikoff affair? Did they march in the streets threatening to burn down Metelkova? I did not see any such thing. Yet here, just because somebody was triing to be funny, the same people who burn American and Israeli flags without ever considering feelings of Israelis or Americans, the same people who would rather chop off the head of any gay they encounter, as to give them even the right to exist, are being insulted? Because of some drawings? What will be next? Will they protest us if we say their women should be free as their men are?

    Now, as a stout antichristian, I have seen my share of comics making fun of christianity and even the new pope, which was compared to the evil imperator from Star Wars. We should be fair here and not make a big deal out of nothing. If they (muslims) can’t cope with it, then they need not live here or buy our products or read our newspapers and what is most important, stop taking our charitiy money.

     
  2. crni

    Sure the catholics would put up a stink. But would they hijack an embassy, kill a bunch of people and threaten to bomb a whole lot more? A bit of a difference, eh?

     
  3. domen

    And you are both talking about the consequence. Offending someone`s religious feelings IN THE NEWSPAPERS is FORBIDDEN. You are talking comic books and some silly animations. Not THE MASS MEDIA.

     
  4. Jernej

    Oh well… this whole deal only proves some people have absolutely no sense of humor.

    Comics, caricatures etc. will always push the limits of what is offensive. Racial, ethnic, religious and every other stereotype is at the root of almost every joke. The CODE that you so faithfuly defend doesn’t really apply in such cases. These are jokes and therefore not ment to be taken seriously.

    Bonsai, Glanzkopf… some people laugh at these things, others are offended but I don’t know anyone that would start a riot because some newspaper published a joke.

    They may go to court… but they’ll lose.

     
  5. crni

    Cookie, just FYI in the catholic church, Jesus Christ is not considered only a prophet, but rather more – a part of God. You know, the whole holy trinity thing. Consider the Strelnikoff thing in that light. Consider also, that the album cover in question was featured in Mladina, which qualifies as a newspaper, albeit barely. I thought it was OK to make fun of christians and I think it’s OK to make fun of muslims, too. And if someone wants to make fun of us agnostics and atheists and how we are never going to heaven or whatever, they can go ahead.

     
  6. Tilen

    Madona Domen,

    prvo napišeš za marsikoga žaljivo zgodbico/šalo (Aristocrats) potem pa lajaš kako grdo, neetično in brez spoštovanja do drugih religij nekateri objavljajo karikature. Lepo te prosim.

    Bi bilo fino, ko bi z društva za zaščito živali vpili cenzura, jihad, mučenje psa. Ukiniti cookijev blog.

    V muslimanski republiki tvegaš glavo z nošnjo križa, pokažeš preveč kože ipd.. sedej mi bojo pa še govorili, kaj lahko v časopise dajem.

    Kmalu zahodni časopisi ne bodo smeli pisati o mutilaciji deklic, polivanju kisline po obrazih žensk, ki so osramotile svojo družino, kamenjanju hčera, ker so se predolgo pogovarjale s sosedom (oz. sploh odprle usta) itd… ker je to njihova kultura in so to njihovi običaji. Aja, pozabil sem dodati, grafično upodabljanje Alaha, ker Koran to prepoveduje. Pfej.

    VI zahojeni multikuluralisti se boste pa klanjali in brisali poste, članke, karikature…

    Strelnikoff is an artistic musical group. Newspapers are…not.
    Kaj pa je karikatura kot artistično izražanje?

    Ko te naslednič vidim, te uščipnem. Bom vsaj videl, če sploh živiš v realnem svetu.

     
  7. domen

    The point that everybody is overlooking apparently is that islam is not the same thing as christianity. We have a secular state while islamic states are religious. Islam is not something you pick up at church on sundays.

    Equalizing the rules that exist in islamic states with the rules that exist in secular states is silly and wrong. You cannot judge one culture from the point of another. Especially not two cultures who are so much apart from each other. They have rules. We have rules. Those rules do not compare nor they exist in the same value system. The fact that the islamic nations lean more towards physical punishments has nothing do to with the fact that physical punishments are frowned upon in our system. And writing about them has nothing to do with posting offensive caricatures of Mohammed. And then saying “Shut the fuck up! This is freedom of speech!” when the other side revolts.

    Why are they burning flags? Just look at what we are doing to them. Did the muslims ever bomb the western Europe? Did they ever do anything hurtful to our culture minus the reaction on our evil deeds? Come on, you are saying things like we had no previous incidents and all of the sudden wham! there burns our flag.

    Multiculturalism has nothing to do with it Tilen. Let`s not even go there since we will soon realise that our concept of multiculturalism is only another way of keeping the immigrants at bay. In slums, tucked far away from “our” people.

    Another point of view. No islamic culture has ever heard of multi-religion state. There is only one religion with a few different branches, but still the one and only religion. Secular states are so different from “their” world that we cannot even begin to imagine what it would be like if we switched places.

    Another point of view. Do you know why the western europe is composited out of secular states? Because we learned that having religious states would kill us all. We learned from the past. Our past. Where some of the greatest wars were fought in the name of religion. It seems that the muslims are doing a better job at living in a religious state.

    And Jernej…jokes ought to be taken lightly? Every true comedian knows what is appropriate and what is not. Saying “Cmon, it`s a joke!” only works so far till the audience agrees with it. The second the audience says “This shit is not funny!” the comedian must apologize. Here is a few things (off the top of my head) nobody jokes about in our media space:

    1. Child pornography
    2. World war 2, making jokes out of the partisan movement
    3. Child abuse

    Why not? Come on, it`s only a joke!

    All I am trying to say is that there is a reason for them to be angry, they have the right to be angry and they should be angry.

     
  8. Mitja

    First a disclaimer: I have’t seen the cartoon in question, but I will assume that it’s not some pointless crap with no other purpose but to offend Muslims. If it is, what I’m going to say is still valid, but it doesn’t fully apply to this case.

    I agree that different rules apply in Islamic states than in Europe. If this kind if cartoons are forbidden in Saudi Arabia, I have no problem with that. But they are legal in Denmark. I don’t know whather they violate their journalists’ codex (if they have one), but I doubt such a codex is anything else but a set of recommendations and if it doesn’t allow cartoons that make some valid point, but offend someone’s religious feelings in the process (as the Slovenian codex appears to), than I fully support anyone who violates it in such cases.

    The Muslims of course have the right to be angry. Everybody has the right to be angry about anything he chooses to. The only thing they don’t have the right to is retaliate in some illegal way (I hope they won’t go that far, but they do have a fine tradition of doing just that). And I have the right to consider them assholes for boycotting Danish products that have nothing whatsoever to do with the paper that published the cartoon (except that they happen to be from the same country).

     
  9. Tilen

    All I am trying to say is that there is a reason for them to be angry, they have the right to be angry and they should be angry.

    Mirovniško bluzenje. Nič več. Nič manj.

    Pa ne mešaj svojega pogleda na krščanstvo z pogledom globoko vernega kristjana. Razlika med globoko vernim kristjanom in muslimanom ni tako velika.

    Ne razumem ljudi, ki zagovarjajo civilizirane norme in vrednote, obenem pa z entuziazmom zagovarjajo skupine, ki take norme in vrednote zavračajo.

    Recimo zagovarjaš in poudarjaš pravice žensk obenem pa zagovarjaš muslimanski way of life, kjer ženska niti približno nima takih pravic kot jih ima v zahodnem svetu. Zakaj? Zaradi spoštovanja do druge kulture? Bluz.

     
  10. Mitja

    Oh, and another thing. If someone in our media chooses to joke about child pornography, partisans and child abuse, I might not like it (unless he’s funny of course), but I will like any attempts tu supress him even less.

     
  11. Tilen

    Pa še to.

    Je prav, da zaradi par karikatur…
    – bojkotirajo danske izdelke
    – ugrabijo nemškega državljana in grozijo z ubojem
    – zažigajo zastave in simbole
    – vdrejo v poslopje danskega veleposlaništva
    – razgrajajo in množično protestirajo
    – pozivajo k sveti vojni itd…

    No?

     
  12. crni

    http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/721/mohammeddrawingsnewspaper12he.jpg
    So, the fact that islam does not have the separation of religion and state means that muslims can interfere in the internal affairs of other sovereign countries and dictate what is and what is not acceptable in the media? Retarded.

    I can understand that they feel insulted, just as I understood the catholics for being insulted by the rat. But killing people and taking hostages over something like this is simply not acceptable.

     
  13. Marko

    Some cultures mutilate women so they wouldn’t feel pleasure during intercourse. Can we judge them?

    I’m asshole enough to think yes. In my opinion being from a different culture doesn’t excuse anyone from violations of human rights.

    I personally wouldn’t publish something like this and don’t see good in republishing it. However, it is about a freedom of speech and it was exercised in Danemark, not somewhere in the middle east. Even though I accept their right to their culture, I certainly don’t see why it should extend to Europe.

    I also fail to see why it would be acceptable for artists to be offensive and not for others. Either everyone can be or no one.

    Anyone who finds himself so often concerned about other people’s mental health ought to think about his own at least for a few moments.

     
  14. Jernej

    Stop, we ran out of virgins… 😉

    BTW a WW2/partizan joke
    http://www.joker.si/mn3njalnik/lofiversion/index.php/t10672.html

    “The second the audience says “This shit is not funny!” the comedian must apologize.”

    Obviously you’ve never seen a show by Dave Chapelle http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/chappelles_show/index.jhtml
    His entire act is based on insulting people. Most of the time he’s just making an idiot of himself but some people seem to like the concept.

    They’ve got every right to be offended but non whatsoever to do what they’re doing at the moment. Denmark in not an islamic state no matter how you look at things. Muslims can criticize and demand an apology (and they probably deserve it) but they’ve got no rights over what should and should not be published.

    Let’s burn down the chinese embassy and every chinese restaurant because they control internet access, eat dogs, kill tigers and a whole range of endangered species just to get an erection (buy a Viagra you stupid fucks!), let’s raid the indonesian embassy…. well, surely there must be something we at least dissagree on. We’ll figure it out as we go.

    Wait… we can’t??! Why not? You mean we just have to deal with it?? What about the poor dogs, tigers, rhinos, sharks? I want to burn flags and kick someones ass!

    Everything comes down to complete lack of tolerance for other cultures and in this case, no sense of humor.

     
  15. Baya

    I think Domen is talking about the way the islam is being felt and seen in muslim countires. They live and breath islam. Islam is their way of living. They see everything in religion and everything touches them. Therefore they see the cartoon very personal.

    Christianity is not the same as islam. Does an every other christian pray 5 times a day? Does he pray every day at all and goes to church every day and honours and obeyes the 10 commandments? Does he do good, think good and has clear thoughts all the time? I don’t think so. Therefore christians don’t live and breath religion.

    When it comes to freedom of speech. I don’t think everything should be allowed. J.S.Mill talked about freedom. You have all the freedom in the world- as long as you don’t hurt anybody with your actions. I don’t think that should solely be taken physically, but also mentally. So, you don’t say just everything that pops to your mind. ‘They’ are offended fast. Faster than ‘us’. Why push it? Especially now that they’re being attacked all the time solely because a bunch of muslims got fed up and caused some serious damage to the West ( i’m not saying they did the right thing but i’m also saying the West brought it to themselves alone)

    I agree with Tilen about the reaction. Their reactions are quite severe. But hey, they live and breath religion. The cartoonist(s) stepped on their toes.
    What was there to expect?

    And i don’t think anybody is for opressing women. No human being should hurt another.
    Still, antropology teaches us that cultures are different. In some women rule and men are only for sperm. In some women are being tortured. I’m not saying that’s right and i’m glad i’m not in that culture…but who are ‘we’ (the europeans) to tell ‘them’ they’re wrong? This is and always will be a dilemma. Still, I go for sovereignity and culture. One culture is not to judge, hurt or try to change another culture.

     
  16. Tilen

    In some women are being tortured. I’m not saying that’s right and i’m glad i’m not in that culture…but who are ‘we’ (the europeans) to tell ‘them’ they’re wrong?

    Kdo pa naj jim to pove? Marsovci? Sami bodo zelo počasi pogruntali. Nekaj desetletij nazaj pravice žensk v evropi niso bile nekaj samoumevnega. Pa so se stvari spemenile. Spreminjajo se povsod. Ne vem zakaj se nebi smele spremeniti tudi v muslimanskem svetu. S sklicevanjem na višjo silo (boga, koran…) ohranjajo status quo. Zakaj je pa njihov način življena svet. Ker je osnovan na par tisoč let starem bluzenju tatova kamel.

    Zakaj ne smemo biti zgled? Dajmo zgled z dejanji in nasveti ne z brezbrižnostjo.

    One culture is not to judge, hurt or try to change another culture.

    Zakaj ne? Dober razlog prosim. Ljudožerce smo tudi prepričali, da ni pametno jesti ljudi. Brez vmešavanja naše kulture bi se mogoče še danes jedli. Za moje pojme za lase privlečena trditev.

    Niste videli kako so se mlade moderne (ozaveščene?, pismene) palestinke ustrašile, ko je na volitvah zmagal Hamas. Na televiziji so dajale izjave, da se bodo z orožjem borile za svoje pravice in svoj način življenja. Ustrašile so se svojih rojakov.

    Drugače pa življenje črpati iz par tisoč let stare bukve. Prosim. Ne tako dobesedno in s tako prijejeno interpretacijo. Ne rečem, da ne more dati dobrih napotkov. Tudi Biblija jih da. Ampak pretiravati pa spet ni treba.

    Žena “Kaj pa piše v Koranu o preljubi mož?”
    Mož: “Pravi, mi moraš biti podrejena. Za nepokorščino te lahko kaznujem kakor želim.”
    Žena: “Smem prebrati?”
    Mož: “Ne, piše, da ne smeš brati.”
    Mož: “pa piše, da mi moraš copate prinesti…”

     
  17. Tilen

    @Jernej: Stop, we ran out of virgins… tale je res dobra. V njej ne vidim nič spornega.

    Saj sami pravijo, da če umreš v procesu ubijanja nevernika (infedel – aka non-muslim), te Alah nagradi z X devicami.

    En kreten se je spomnil, da v duhu svete vojne lahko musliman ubije nevernika (po možnosti imperialistično svinjo). In on je za to nagrajen z lepim številom devic.

    A to je pa vredu? Nič ne skačete? Nič ne vpijete? Pa to ponavljajo vplivne islamske osebnosti on-air madona. Pa nič ne kričite po cenzuri?

    Pa ne pravim, da musliman ne more biti dober človek. Nasprotno. Lahko je zelo dober človek. Veliko jih je. Ima pa IMO, lepo predispozicijo (določene hardcore usmeritve islama), da fejst pihne mimo.

    Pa, da ne boste rekli, da sem križar na poti v Palestino. Za krščanstvo najdem vsaj toliko ali več kritik.

     
  18. domen

    @Tilen:

    zdaj ga pa ti malo sračkaš. Ne moreš samo zato, ker tebi sede evropska kultura, taisto kulturo vsiljevati kar vse napovprek in govoriti o “dobrih” in “slabih” razlogih za obstoj določene kulture. Vedno bodo razlike in vedno bodo obstajale kulture z diametralnimi vrednotami. Status quo, o katerem ti govoriš, kot da je nekaj slabega, je razlog da kultura in vrednostni sistem deluje. Ko za večino ne deluje več, imaš revolucijo in nov sistem. In tako ad infinitum. Ne moreš pa reči, da je status quo sistem slab, samo zato, ker si ti navajen, da se konstantno nekaj spreminja. Glede vere…tudi krščanstvo ima noter “širiti vero z ognjem in mečem” in razne malteške viteze in tako naprej. Pa to ni poanta tega. Vedno bo določen procent fanatikov. Če si folk žile reže zaradi kurta cobaina, ja itak da si jih bodo tudi zaradi neke stokrat starejše in stokrat bolj “pametne” stvari, kot je vera v boga. Vera je pač hecna stvar. Pa to sploh ni bila debata. Debata je (še vedno) ali tukaj svoboda govora prevladuje nad žalitvijo verskih čustev. Sploh v tem času, ko zadeve že tako ali tako niso urejene. Zakaj ena kultura ne more in ne sme soditi druge? Daj no, saj si imel antropologijo. Pa sociologijo. Pa polno enih predmetov, kjer so razlagali, zakaj to ni dobro in zakaj kulture ne smejo biti dominantne in submisivne. In se mi zdi hecno, da se folk toliko ukvarja z neko drugo kulturo, ko pa še sami pred svojim pragom ne znamo pomest čisto vseh vogalov. To je hinavščina. Kaži s prstom na druge, da ne bodo drugi videli, kaj imaš ti. “Ljudožerce smo prepričali…” Misliš, nasrali smo jih. Prodali smo jim neke buče, oni so to kupili in zdaj je vse kul? Daj no. Pri nas jemo krave. Bomo verjeli indijcem, ko bodo razlagali, da se tega ne sme? Da je to sveta žival? V lastni državi ubijati okupatorja ni sveta vojna…ampak samooobramba. Sploh če pridejo noter brez kakršnegakoli legitimnega razloga.

    @Marko – Razlika je med osebnim izražanjem mnenj in množičnimi mediji. Razlika je, ali je rasist en ata v gostili, ki ima mogoče pet ljudi zraven ali pa je rasističen medij, ki ima bralce v tisočih in potem to povzemajo še drugi mediji. A to je vam vseeno? Koliko ljudi nekaj sliši? Zakaj potem obstajajo pravila za množične medije in kodeksi novinarjev? Zakaj potem ni še kodeksa za stare ate? Daj no, ta freedom of speech se goni gor in dol, kot da je edina stvar, ki obstaja. Kot da ni nobene druge norme, nobene druge etike kot samo to, da lahko steguješ jezik. Pa še nekaj glede freedom of speech. To ne pomeni, da mnenja niso sankcionirana. To samo pomeni, da si jih lahko drzneš izreči. To ni carta bianca za vse svinjarije. Zakaj potem preganjajo neonaciste? Zakaj potem preganjajo fašiste? Kaj, a oni pa nimajo svobode? Oni nas pa ne smejo žalit? Hinavščina brez primere.

    @Jernej – če obstajajo ljudi, ki bodo plačali, zato da jim nekdo v obraz reče, da so pedri (ne vem, komika ne poznam), potem so to mazohisti in te ne moreš štet kot pravilo. Ker bi potem lahko rekel “Hej, mazohisti uživajo, ko jih nekdo muči. Torej vsi uživajo, če jih nekdo muči. Navali narode!”. Pod drugo…probaj ti tale vic spravit kamorkoli v množične medije. Probaj ga dat v komentar na delo.si pa boš videl, koliko časa bo gor. To, da ti najdeš en vic na nekem brezveznem forumu, nič ne pove. Oziroma pove to, da ti ne veš, o čem se pogovarjamo. Druga stvar je enačenje mučenja živali z žaljenjem verskih čustev. Ahem. Mučenje živali je naša stvar. To si je naša kultura zmislila, po tem, ko smo fentali vse mogoče kite, srne, lisice in vse ostalo, kar ni bilo dovolj veliko, da bi nas napadlo nazaj in zmagalo. Pa še potem smo prišli nazaj z večjo puško in jim jebali mater. Nikjer drugje nimajo tega termina, to pa zato, ker ga enostavno ne nucajo. Ker spoštujejo živali in pazijo na ravnotežje. Si že kdaj videl, da bi bila afganistanska skupina za pravice koz? Ne. Zakaj ne? Ker, navkljub temu, da ima koza status žrtvene živali, pazijo na to, da jih ne izbrišejo iz obličja zemlje. Samo zahodnjaki smo tako požrešni, neumni in uničevalski, da gremo kar na juriš do konca.

    In končno…ko zahodnjaki govorijo o toleranci drugih kultur…sam najprej pomislim na
    1. rome
    2. homoseksualce
    3. južnjake.

    Pa se vse neha. Mi smo civilizacija, ki bo na koncu zajebala vse. In zraven v luknjo potegnila še sosede. Ki niso nič krivi.

    Tako, mislim da to pokrije vse.

     
  19. Marko

    In kam potem po tvoje sodijo blogi? So šank ali množični medij? Je medij, ki ga nihče ne bere kaj manj medijski? Koliko ljudi mora prisluhnit, da bi govorec moral obmolknit?

    Nimam pojma zakaj imate novinarji kodeks in mi je odkrito rečeno vseeno, ker ni videti, da bi na vaše delo kaj dosti vplival. Vsekakor pa kar se zakonov tiče ne bi smelo biti razlike med hujskanjem starega ate in novinarjem.

    Ni zahodna civilizacija edina, ki je iztrebljala živali in tudi sicer je pogled, da je za vse težave tega sveta kriv zahod vsaj naiven.

    Sam tudi ne mislim, da bi morala biti pravica do izražanja svojih misli neomejena in tudi ni. Vsekakor pa mislim, da bi v naši kulturi morale veljati naše omejitve in če so kristjani morali požreti križ potopljen v urin, ne vidim zakaj bi bile druge vere izjema.

    Sicer pa debata ni ta, ali je ena kultura prava, ampak ali so nekatere pravice vseobče človeške in če so, kaj točno pomenijo.

     
  20. Tilen

    Zakaj potem preganjajo neonaciste? Zakaj potem preganjajo fašiste?

    Zakaj v osrčju Evrope ni islamske republike? Ker bi jo doletela ista usoda kot zgoraj omenjene. Drugače pa neonacista in fašista preganjajo v enaki meri kot islamskega skrajneža oz. manj ker ga zagovarjate mirovniki in promotorji multiulturalizma.

    Pa se vse neha. Mi smo civilizacija, ki bo na koncu zajebala vse. In zraven v luknjo potegnila še sosede. Ki niso nič krivi.

    Ne seri. Če že, bo rešila vse. Bluziš na kubik. Kje bi bil danes islamski svet brez zahodnih zdravil? Bolj malo bi jih bilo.

    Od kje tebi ideja, da lahko temeljne (mednarodno priznane) človekove pravice interpretiraš glede na kulturo. Torej mora biti pravica do dostojanstva ženske, pravica voljenja, pravica pismenosti itd. kulturno defenirana. Za islam (skrajni pol) velja drugače kot za nas.
    Potemtakem si hinavec Ti.

    Moški ima dan in noč zaprto ženo v sobi, kjer lupi krompir. Ne zna brati, ker ne sme. Na ulico gre lahko samo v spremstvu moža.

    In ti praviš, da je to OK, ker jim to VERA omogoča. Žalostno je, da se take stvari dogajajo v tudi v Evropi. Taki kot si ti pa vpijete: “pustite jih, to je njihova kultura”

    Ti povem še eno tako zgodbico iz Ljubljane?
    Izjemno pridna in inteligentna študentka se je šla poročiti v Bosno. Zakaj? Ker so starši menili, da je študij brezvezen in za ženo ne rabi izobrazbe. Bravo!

    Na jetra mi gre to, da dvolično zagovarjate temeljne človekove pravice. Pravite, da za njih ne veljajo ker smo se jih spomnili mi. Zakaj?

     
  21. Tilen

    V Londonu protestirajo s transparenti na katerih so naslednje besede:

    – Exterminate those who slander Islam.
    – Butcher those who mock Islam.
    – Behead those who insult Islam.
    – Be prepared for the real holocaust.

    Policija pa jih samo gleda… pozabljajo, da je krog osumljencev veliko širši, kot samo par posameznikov, ki blati Islam.

    Prepričanje: “meni ne bodo storili nič ker jih razumem in podpiram” te ne bo rešilo.

     
  22. Tilen

    Dokaz?

    Ugrabitve in uboji vseh tistih mirovnikov, zdravnikov, prostovoljcev in neodvisnih novinarjev, ki so hoteli prikazati objektivno resnico.

     
  23. domen

    @Marko
    No, če ne veš, zakaj ga imamo, potem ne bluzi. Če ne veš, kaj noter piše, potem ne bluzi. Blog ni isto kot množični medij. Množični medij je reguliran, ima pravila, je pravna oseba in si ne more nekaznovano privoščit ekscesov, ki si jih lahko privoščimo blogerji (vsaj zaenkrat). Če te zanimajo sankcionirani ekscesi medijev, si poglej Razsodišče. Mogoče boš potem bolj razumel.

    Zahodna civilizacija ni edina pri iztrebljanju živali…se pa na tem področju najbolj trudi.

    “V naši kulturi naše omejtive”? Saj islam ni v naši kulturi! Mi pljuvamo čez ograjo in potem ko sosed pride vprašat, kaj hudiča se gremo, rečemo “ja, saj smo iz našega vrta pljunili na vas! Kaj se pa usajate??”

    @Tilen
    Prvič…Če je za zločin upodabljanja preroka zagrožena smrtna kazen, kaj hudiča pa naj piše na plakatih? “Dajte jih po riti?”. Kaj ponavadi piše na plakatih, ko pripeljejo obsojenega morilca iz sodišča? Kakšna kazen je zagrožena za zločin umora v naši kulturi, Tilen? Ti jemlješ islam kot nekaj, kar imajo sosedi namesto piščanca v nedeljo. To ni resno.

    Drugič…kje bi bli muslimani brez zahodnjaških zdravil? A dej no. Si to resno mislil? Najbrž ne. And please…don`t take my word for it. Tukaj in tukaj.
    Raje se vprašaj, kje bi bili mi brez muslimanov.

    Politični sistem JE kulturno definiran. Pravni sistem JE kulturno definiran. Za božjo voljo, ne bodi no tako šokiran. Koliko kultur je na svetu, ki imajo drugače urejene medspolne odnose kot mi. Koliko kultur (tudi naša!), kjer sta spola neenaka. Pa ne samo to, ampak tudi druga področja sociale.

    Kaj me briga študentka. Pa bi ušla. Kje pa piše, da mora biti vse vsem všeč? Koliko ljudi je prešlo v islam, pa jim ni nič hudega. Žensk in moških. Ti imaš za primer eno osebno zgodbo, ki nič ne pove. Boš rekel, da krščanstvo pa ne pozna idiotov?

    Dvolično zagovarjanje?? Kakšno dvolično zagovarjanje? Tisti, ki hočejo na čisto vse nalepit človekove pravice so hinavci. In furajo nek kulturni imperializem, kjer je vse, kar je naše, dobro in bi moralo biti globalno razširjeno in vse, kar ni naše, je slabo in bi morali zatreti.

    Tvoj zadnji dokaz? Kaj mi delamo v iraku? Kaj mi delamo v ostalih islamskih državah? Uvažamo demokracijo? Kje piše, da je to najboljše? V NAŠIH knjigah? Je kdo pogledal, kaj piše v NJIHOVIH knjigah?

    In prosim…da mi takoj nehaš govorit o novinarjih in objektivni resnici. Takoj. Ker to je pa še bolj neresno kot poniževanje islama. Sploh, ker se je zahodnjaško novinarstvo v zadnjem času izkazalo kot zelo kredibilno in kot ti praviš objektivno. In vsak, ki misli, da mu mediji rišejo realno sliko, naj enkrat pogleda skozi okno. Pa bo videl…

    Meni se gnusi ta drža, ki govori o nadmoči naše civilizacije in kulture in naših vrednot, ki jih potem vsiljujemo drugim, kot da oni pa ničesar ne vejo in njihova civilizacija pa itak ni sposobna preživet brez naše pomoči. Daj no. Dajmo potem kar vse asimilirat pa bomo kot v risanki. Vsi v istih hlačah, vsi z isto pesmijo na ustih in vsi z istim mišljenjem. To bo res fino. Komaj čakam.

     
  24. Tilen

    Kaj ponavadi piše na plakatih, ko pripeljejo obsojenega morilca iz sodišča?

    Nekaj protestnikov (večina žlahta) pred sodiščem ni isto kot par tisoč glava množica fanatikov, ki zažiga avtomobile in poziva k uničenju Zahoda. In to v evropskih mestih.

    In furajo nek kulturni imperializem, kjer je vse, kar je naše, dobro in bi moralo biti globalno razširjeno in vse, kar ni naše, je slabo in bi morali zatreti.

    Ne vse. Veliko imajo za ponuditi. Določenih stvari pač ne.

    In prosim…da mi takoj nehaš govorit o novinarjih in objektivni resnici.

    Govorim o novinarjih, ki so šli tja z namenom, da povejo njihovo zgodbo pa si jih ravnotako ugrabili in ubili. Na televiziji. Ni bilo važno na kateri strani so. Bili so zahodnjaki.
    Zdravnike in mirovnike si pozabil komentirati.

    Povej kaj pa meniš o organizacijah kot so Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch ipd. Se oni tudi ne smejo vtikati. So etnocentrične ker opozarjajo na zlorabe čl. pravic v Iraku, Iranu, Kitajski, Indoneziji, Siriji, Savdski Arabiji pa tudi v ZDA, Sloveniji…

    Zagovarjaš pravice žensk. Zagovarjaš hardcore islam way of life. Za moje pojme nezdružljivo. Odloči se. Eno ali pa drugo. Oboje pač ne gre. Bosta z Bayo v Teheranu in bosta videla kamenjanje ženske zaradi domnevnega prešuštva (najbrž jo je sosed videl brez burke). Boš slikal in nato naredil potopisno predavanje? Ob tem pa jih zagovarjal?

    Sej je res, da moderni islam čisto spodobno deluje. Ampak brez širiatskega prava in ekstra konzervativnih idej. To morajo odpraviti.

    Pa ni samo Islam problem. Na jetra mi grejo vsi verski fanatiki. Tudi stara mama, ko začne pogovor o Bogu in se čudi zakaj ne verujem.

    Da ne začnem o ideji verouka v šoli. Mi grejo kocine pokonci. Pa naj me vsemogočni Bog/Alah s strelo, če more.

     
  25. Tilen

    Več sto Sirijcev je med protesti zaradi spornega stripa zažgali dansko ambasado v Damasku.

    Way to go.

    Če je to vse “zob za zob”, zakaj zaradi Piranskega zaliva, ne gori hrvaško veleposlaništvo v Rožni Dolini? Ali pa slovensko v Zagrebu?

     
  26. Jernej

    Ja, novinarsko častno razsodišče je smešna stvar… nihče ga ne upošteva in tudi v najbolj očitnih primerih je ugotovitev ponavadi: ni bil kršen člen xx
    itak off topic…

    pa gremo nazaj…
    S temi uničevalnimi izpadi določene islamske skupnosti (o nihovi številčnosti v globalnem smislu ne bom ugibal ampak verjetno je dokaj zanemarljiva) izkazujejo točno to kar sami očitajo Dancem in ostalim – nespoštovanje. Hinavci s(m)o vsi, razlika je samo v reakciji. Žal, in to me moti, so nekateri neprimerno bolj agresivni kot bi bilo smiselno v dani situaciji. Ampak idioti bodo povsod in vedno, nekje bolj, drugje manj številčni.

     
  27. Marko

    To, da pravim da ne vem čemu služi ni posledica tega, da ne bi slišal zanj ali njegove pristojnosti, ampak da je njegovo delovanje popolnoma nepomembno in kot takšno vprašljive smiselnosti. Glede na to, da celo tvoji profesorji sodijo, da je raven novinarstva v Sloveniji nizka in da je najhujša možna in redka sankcija izključitev iz društva (članstvo ni pogoj za opravljanje poklica), bi rekel da je vprašanje čisto umestno.

    Za pogovor o živalih bi bilo super, če bi ti premogel malo več zgodovinskega vpogleda, ampak tega jaz od tebe v bistvu niti ne pričakujem. Dejstvo je, da smo jih skozi stoletja iztrebljali vsi. Verjamem, da sčasoma ne enako uspešno, vsekakor pa še vedno mislim, da je zgrešena idilična predstava, da drugod živijo v sožitju z naravo.

    Islam ni naša kultura, pa tudi danska ne. Bi pa pričakoval, da se danski časopis izdan v Danski ozira predvsem na norme danske družbe. In če se naslonim na tvoje mnenje, da se nimamo pravice vtikati v njihovo kulturo, se oni potem takem nimajo v dansko.

    Res pa ne razumem, zakaj se jaz sploh trudim imeti racionalen pogovor z nekom, ki je tako neotesan kot ti. V prihodnje se bom vsekakor poskušal vzdržati in te prepustiti lajanju na ljudi, ki si drznejo nestrinjati se s tabo.

     
  28. Salman

    How are you guys.I hope all you would be fine as from my name you would know i am a muslim.I am from an arab country.Not the enemy of anyone of you.I just came to solve this problem.The problem of prophet muhammad was started from the country known as ‘Denmark’.First of all they printed the pictures and stories about our prophet muhammad.And later other countries.My question is why they did so!What we muslims did to them.Did we do something to denmark.Did we bomb blasted in denmark.Did we killed any of thier citizen or did we have done something wrong to their religions.No absolutley not.So then why denmark broke our hearts.Whose hand was there to support them to do this.If you think cristians i say no.If you say buddis,hindus,sikhs and others i say no.The one an only it can be done are jews.Why jews ever we have thinked no yeah.Let me tell you why jews they are against islam.Because when last prophet muhammad he came to this world he was not from the families of bano israiles.He was from bano quraish.Bano israiles are the followers of ‘Moses’ and bano quraish were the pepole of ‘ibraham’.The jews wanted to have the last prophet from there family but allah the almighty wanted to test jews so allah send the last prophet from the followers of ibraham.And second ibraham has prayed to allah from before that send the last messenger from his family.Which allah accepted.And even the people bano israiels they were told signs of last prophet which came true on prophet muhammad. and they were informed by moses to follow the last prophet becuse moses was sent for certain people and time and it was finished.And prophet muhammad is last prophet and no more prophets will be send down every has to leave all previous religions.And all other true religions gathers in one called islam means peace.Now it was on bano israilies to follow the last prophet or to reject him so they rejected the last prophet and till now they are bitter enimies of islam.To make muslims angry and blame them as terrorists and unpeacefull people they did this through our christian brothers.Abou the christians our prophet has clearly said they are like your brothes you can eat with them.Sit with them can marry their pure womens.Can deal with them etc.But about jews prophet muhammad has clearly said they are unpure and untrusted people.The jews they did every thing against prophet muhammad throug critians and they themselves are beside the screen why because they want to make fight between muslims and christian to creat a hate in thier hearts for each to destroy both of the huge nations pl avoid all this propoganda.And get united.Some of you has listed that i was just ajoke.A joke which kind of joke a joke to create crouption a joke to destroy the world a joke to create a mess.Just imagine that someone draws the pictures of your religion and prophet and blame your prophet as terrorist and fundamentalist and a raper,destroyer and draws bombs and missile with him. would you be happy and accept it as joke.Never you would like to eat those people alive.Kill them or punish them.Same are we muslims our prophet is more lovable then our lives.We can never accept it.Think from today about others

     
  29. Salman

    Another thing if we are called terrorist for what. for attacking embasses and kidnapping poor people.Why we are doing this why becuse of western countries they attacked our islamic states by blaming we have weapons. who is inventer of most of weapons west or middle east who invented jetfighters,atomic bombs guns etc.Western countries yeah.They invented and sold on othes to raise there economy and if on other had we use weapons for defence you blame them as danger to world and attak inocent muslims.Kill them what is this.Making fool of world.If west has wepons it is for safety and if othes they have it is not for saftey its dangerous. if it is saftey then why atom bomb was used by america against japan.Haan tell me.Why they killed innocent japanese dont say it was a mistake.Why this not terrorism is this is a peace.Why america attacked iraq only for some drops of oil.Thats it.Only for oil you sucked out the blood from our bodies.And if we defend our countries you people call us terrorists this much cruel you pepole are we never knowed.Just imagine i attack your home with my gang only for intention of some gold.In this attack i blame you have wepons which are dangerous for socity.And attak with heavey wepons. in this attack i killed you mother father brothes cosens and you only left defending your home with stick.And i tell people outside you as terrorist will you accept.Never yeah.Same case is with iraq and afganistan.Us coming from outside by intention of oil andb lamin muslims as terrorists.And second for all the people for women rights in islam.Please read the books about the rights of womens in islam.Read in holy quran in english translation or other language then comment on it.Explore islam your brain will open dont see muslims of this time see the prophet what he commanded us to do for listening the sayings of prophet you can buy the book called’sheh al bukhari’ most of you dont kown about the righs of women in islam and like crazy commenting on it.

     

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